Worshiping God Not A Stone
Following is an excerpt from a conversation that took place between His Divine Grace A.C. Bhaktivedanta
Swami Prabhupada and his disciples in vrndavana, India, on September 15, 1975.
Swami Prabhupada and his disciples in vrndavana, India, on September 15, 1975.
Srila Prabhupada: And big, big swamis are saying, "Yes, whatever you manufacture, it is all right." yatha mat tatha path: "whatever ways you manufacture cyconcoction, that is all right." So they are satisfied. If somebody says that "You surrender unto me," that is not very palatable. If somebody says,"No, you can surrender anywhere," that is very palatable.
Brahmananda: Because that means no surrender. To surrender anywhere…
Prabhupada: Yes.
Brahmananda: Then they're satisfied.
Vasughosa: Many people say,"We have to do our karma." They are telling me,"Do your duty."
Prabhupada: This is the duty: you surrender to Krsna. This is the only duty.
Vasughosa: They say their family, their wife, their job, their Children, all these things.
Brahmananda: Sometimes they say,"When He wills it, then I will do it." (laughter)
Prabhupada: Yes. This is not willing, when he says that "You do this?"
vasughosa: They says,"When he makes my heart… When he puts it in my heart, and when he makes my heart open up to him, then I will…"
Prabhupada: And you have no heart. You have simply stone. (laughter) that is sung by some Vaisnava that "My heart is harder than the stone, because I know that even the stone melts by chanting Hare Krsna, but my heart does not melt. Therefore I think it is harder than the stone."
Indian man (2): Once somebody asked Prabhupada Maharaja in calcutta that "When can you show me Krsna?" Prabhupada Maharaja said that "Here is Krsna. You cannot see because your eyes are stones. They are not the eyes. If you have gpt the eyes, you can see here."
Prabhupada: Yes.
Indian Man (2): "And these people (devotees) have not come to worship stone. They have come to see Krsna, and they are decorating, and they know that Krsna is here." That at calcutta, you said.
Prabhupada: hm. So what did he say?
Indian Man (2): Yes, Prabhupada, he accepted immediately.
Prabhupada: Lord Krsna is seen by devotees premanjana cchurita bhakti vilocanena santah sadaiva hrdayesu vilokayanti [Bs. 5.38]. Unless there is love for God, who can see God? Santah sadaiva hrdayesu. One who is lover of God, such saintly person, twenty Four hours he sees simply God, nothing else.
Hari sauri: Last night, Srila Prabhupada, he was saying that if everything is ultimately spiritual, if one is spiritually advanced, he sees everything as spiritual. Then if everything is spiritual, then we can carry on doing the same things that we're doing now, because it's all for God.
Prabhupada: No. Krsna says that "Everything is my energy, but…" Mat stani sarva bhutani naham tesu: [Bg. 9.4] " But I am not there." This is the answer. Everything is Krsna's expansion, but not that everything is Krsna.
Indian Man (2): It is also not spiritual.
Prabhupada: What is that?
Indian Man (2): The energy is there, but it is not spiritual.
Prabhupada: No, it is spiritual, but because I do not know Krsna, therefore I see it as material. Just like this microphone. It is being used for Krsna; therefore it is spiritual. Actually, originally, it is form Krsna. So we are not using these material things. Everything, whatever we are using, that is spiritual.
Devotee (3): Srial Prabhupada, if this is spiritual, spiritual means eternal. But this microphone will fall to pieces.
Prabhupada: Yes, but scientifically it will keep the energy, coversation of energy. Even if it is destroyed, it will remain. The material manifestation means bhutva bhutva praliyate [Bg. 8.19]. It si sometimws destroye dand sometimes manifest. But the energy is there.
Indian Man (2): And also remains in different form.
Prabhupada: Whatever it may be. Just like this is earth. Now you prepare hundreds or thousands of earthen pots and dolls. When it is destroyed, again it is earth. So when it is earth. So when it is manifested, it is earth. When it is not manifested, it is earth. So from the spiritual energy of Krsna everything becomes manifested, and therefore originally it is spiritual. Krsna said, bhumir apo 'nalo vayuh kham mano buddhir…, bhinna me prakrtih: [Bg. 7.4] "It is My prakrti, energy." So how Krsna's energy can be material? Because we frget Krsna, terefore it appears material. Mahaprabhu, as soon as he entered the Jagannatha temple. He immediately fainted. Did He see the wooden Jagannatha? It is a question of seeing and preparing the eyes to see.
Hari sauri: Krsna energy is all spiritual, then why in Bhagvad Gita does Krsna make a distinction" My separated material energy"? Why does he say, "separated"?
Prabhupada: Yes. When you replay, the same voice will come, but I am not there. So if you want to utilize this separated energy for Krsna consciousness, thenit will help you. Just like the Deity. Everyone knows it is stone, but why we are worshiping stone?
Hari sauri: It is krsna.
Prabhupada: Yes. It is as good as Krsna. it is not worshiping the stone.
Indian Man (2): Worship, who are worshiping, it never comes to their mind that it is a stone.
Prabhupada: No. therefore the… That is the qualification. [break]… qualified, you will see it is spiritual.
Vasughosa: There are some religions that… Especially the one I am born in, they were especially preaching, you know, that "you should never see a graven image of God."
Prabhupada: Hm?
Vasughosa: "You should never see a graven image of God."
Prabhupada: Yes, that is required, because you are not competent to see God everywhere.
Vasughosa: No, but they….
Brahmananda: They prohibit.
Vasughosa: They prohibit the worship of this vigraha. They say that "God cannot be made into a graven image."
Brahmananda: They say it si blasphemy.
Prabhupada: No. Yes, we also say. Although everything is expansion of the energy of Krsna, not that everything is Krsna. That is the difference between Mayavada philosophy takes everything as expansion of Krsna's energy. Parasya brahmana saktih sarvedam akhilam jagat. Everything is expansion of the energy of the Supreme Brahman. Krsna confirrms it, maya tatam idam sarvam. Without Krsna, there is no existence. But that does not mean anything existentional is Krsna. That is Mayavada philosophy.
Brahmananda: These religions even say that it is offensive to say the name of God.
Prabhupada: So what can I do? (laughter) If the rascal says something, so what can I do?
Brahmananda: Even when they write the word "God", they don't say, "g,o,d,." They say "g, dash," then"d," so that they've indicated God, but they haven't said "God".
Vasughosa: "It's too holy to pronounce,' that's what they…
Prabhupada: No, they can say, "G, zero, and d." (laughter) Zero between g and d. That is a nice explanation.
Dvotee (4): Zero signifies their love for Him.
Prabhupada: yes. Zero is controlling both the side, g and d \. Just like if you multiply something by zero, what it becomes?
Brahmananda: Zero.
Prabhupada: That's all. Sunyavadi.