Following are some excerpts from a room conversation between His Divine Grace A. C. Bhaktivedanta Swami Prabhupada and member of parliment Ratan Singh Rajda that took place in Mumbai, India, on March 27, 1977.
Mr. Rajda: If the rulers, they have got faith in dharma …
Prabhupada: They have no faith. That is the difficulty. They talk of God, talk of religion, but they do not know what is God, what is religion. That is going on. You may be or I may be. We do not know what is the identity of the living entity. Then where is the question of religion?
Mr. Rajda: No, in the last rulers, most of them were Communists, but they said that religion is opium. They say religion is opium. They didn't believe in religion at all.
Prabhupada: Therefore they say something, we say something, he says something. That you manufacture something. But nobody know what is reality. That is the difficulty. Unless you know the reality, to suggest something, "I suggest it," that does not mean it is solution. That is going on, all over the world. Na te viduh svartha gatirh hi visnum durasaya ye bahir artha maninah [SB 7.5.31]. Bahir artha. The external features, these material features, they are concerned with that. Earth, water, air, fire, mind, intelligence. But they do not know that beyond this, there is another element. Unless you come to that knowledge, there is no question of welfare activities. That knowledge is available in India. India should understand. That is Caitanya Mahaprabhu's mission. Bharata bhumite manusya janma haila yara [Cc. Adi 9.41]. Not only India, but he must be a human being. Not only human being, but also systematic human society. [break] Of course, we are trying to give this knowledge. These American, Europeans, they are taking it. It should be done very systematically.
Mr. Rajda: No, but in spite of that your efforts have even got effect on the Western world also.
Prabhupada: (interference) … because it is genuine.
Mr. Rajda: Genuine, correct.
Prabhupada: Therefore even little effort is giving great benefit. But we must know what that effort should be. Everything is there. We must take advantage of it. But we are not taking advantage. Now we have got good government, very nice. Now you should take advantage of the privileges which are there in India. The Bhagavad gita is there. If you take direction from Bhagavad gita, then you will get benefit. The whole human society will be benefitted. That you do not know. That is the defect. Even big, big leaders, they profess to be students of Bhagavad gita, but they do not know anything. Although it is clearly stated. Who is the leader in India who does not know Bhagavad gita?
Mr. Rajda: Yes.
Prabhupada: Why not government make people God conscious? It is very simple thing. God personally is explaining how to become God conscious. Very simple thing. Man-mana bhava mad-bhakto mad-yaji mam namaskuru [Bg. 18.65]. Four things. Even a child can do it. So why not leaders? Then their example whould be followed.
yad yad acarati sresthas tat tad evetaro janah sa yat pramanam kurute lakas tad anuvartate [Bg.3.21]
Why don't they do this, this God consciousness? Do it seriously. Then everything will be all right. They are defying the existence of God and reading Bhagavad gita. This is their position …… Big, big leaders say like that. We have got everything in India, and to become God conscious, to establish the Lord's kingdom, not at all difficult. But we manufacture our own ideas. But we want that rama-rajya, but without Rama, how rama-rajya will be? So those who are leaders of the society' if they take it seriously, will there not be an ideal state? And you can make an … , set an example to the whole world. The whole world will be happy. But we must be very serious about it. That is our Krsna consciousness movement. We are trying, but we have no support from the government, from the leaders. We are alone. Now, after twelve years, they have recognized in the United States and London, Germany. Otherwise, twelve years before, I was not … Loitering in the streets of New York, who was caring for me? Now these boys, they have joined, they are doing something, they are fighting.
Mr. Rajda: Yes. They are doing wonderful work.
Prabhupada: They must.
Mr. Rajda: Very enthusiastic work.
Prabhupada: It is the duty of the Indians. But instead of Indians. I have to collect these young men from foreign countries.
Mr. Rajda: We were just now talking about it on the way. In India we must take it up.
Prabhupada: Let there be one institution for training Indian youth, for this Krsna consciousness movement.
Mr. Rajda: That could be done.
Prabhupada: You do it, and it will be wonderful thing. Do it. In New Delhi. Or in Bombay we have got now very nice building.
Mr. Rajda: In Juhu.
Prabhupada: It is serious, but nobody has taken it seriously. Bhagavad gita is popular book. Everyone takes the Bhagavad gita and says, "I am student of Bhagavad gita." It is very simple thing. And if the leaders of the society, they set example, others will follow.
So let us take advantage of it and make a very perfect institution so that people may take advantage. Otherwise … There is a Bengali song, mayar bose jaccho bhese', khaccho habudubu bhai. Everyone is being washed away by the waves of this material energy. And their attempt to save themselves … That's … Everything is described in the Bhagavad gita. Just like in light, during the rainy season, so many worms and flies, they come and fall in the fire, phat-phat-phat. They do not know. This is the very description, in the Eleventh Chapter. So we do not condemn material life, but without spiritual understanding, this dog race for material comforts, it may be temporary, very nice, but ultimately it is being carried away by the waves of material nature. Karanam guna sango 'sya sad-asad-janma-yonisu [Bg.13.22]. Let them study Bhagavad gita seriously. Let there be serious student to understand, to explain, and everything will be … There must be sadacara.
Mr. Rajda: Yes, religious principles.
Prabhupada: Yes. Brahmacari guru-kule vasan danto guror hitam [SB 712.1]. We are opening gurukula in Vrndavana. We can open here also. We have got land, so let us cooperate. The things are there. We haven't got to manufacture it. Simply we have to take the program seriously. Then everything will be all right.